Xbox boss Phil Spencer has revealed that Microsoft will not be making a profit on the Xbox One X. It launches this November at a price of $499, which has caused some debate as to the value proposition of the console.

Spencer was very specific in his answer, telling Business Insider that he didn’t say it would be sold at a loss when pressed for details. He was also quick to point out that console manufacturers make money from software, not necessarily from hardware:

“I don’t want to get into all the numbers, but in aggregate you should think about the hardware part of the console business is not the money-making part of the business. The money-making part is in selling games.”

Xbox One X launches on November 7, 2017.